Bret,
You gave me quite a scare; I thought you went over the cliff with your cult buddies a few weeks ago after finishing off the Kool-Aid. My mother died many years ago from excessive drinking, so bad things really do happen to nice people as a result of substance abuse. You need to kick your habit so you can keep your mind rational and your path straight toward eternity with God. I hope you will be able to stay away from the Ketel-One, dopey substances, and anything else your buddies try to get you to drink or lust for before you have totally lost your mind or hallucinate your way over the cliff.
Your last post, suggests that you are still imbibing (or imagining) and rationalizing that the Bible is saying something that it is clearly not. Why would you search so extensively for a verse to justify your popping viewpoint or a specific phrase 'change one species to a different species' to support my view when there are so many other verses that are there stating that God grows plants, animals, and humans from their seed and He created each of us in the womb with the characteristics He wanted. The evidence that God did not pop new fully formed mature species into existence is right in front of you. It's like the YEs and your buddies have caused you to be mentally challenged and unable to comprehend what these verses are telling you or integrate them into your views. Evil or bad information like gossip, porn, hate literature can be just as addictive as substances like alcohol. The YE cult party line may have similarly poisoned your mind and its ability to accept other valid and truthful information as well as Bible verses. The mind savors all kinds of additions including cult comradery (and greatly biased data to support the cult's views) and they are hard to get rid of since the ego, and psyche, suffer their loss. This may be why you hold fast to certain Bible phrases but ignore and reject other verses that are most pertinent. I hope you can snap out of this addiction.
I was a little shocked that you were proud of me on my points regarding Darwinism. I have made similar points in my previous posts but you must have missed them. It seems to me that we only disagree on whether the God guided modifications necessary to create new species accumulated generation by generation through natural birth over a very long period of time, as opposed to your view that, all plant and animal kinds were popped into existence instantaneously in new fully formed and mature animals over a period of 3 24 hour days. Of course I take the former position based on proper exegesis of the Bible and the YEs hallucinate or invent the later position without any Biblical verses to support this claim. The YEs have never produced any rational Biblical evidence for popping animals and plants instantaneously into existence. We've addressed Ge 1 verses already, and a careful reading of all the words proved to be counter to your position on it about supporting instantaneous creation of all animal kinds. If there are others that you have found please identify them, otherwise we must assume your position is Biblically bankrupt. Also, if there are other differences, please let me know on which points in my last post that you disagree and why exactly, so that I can address them.
I believe the following is the primary issue: God popping out all plants an animals in three days using greatly accelerated laws of physics
versus God manipulating genetic codes, controlling procreation of each individual species using nature, and using the earth and waters to bring forth (or grow) all kinds of plants and animals sequentually from a common ancestor over hundreds of millions of years. I've found hundreds of verses related to God controlling the procreation of animals, humans, and plants by bringing forth (Hebrew word yatsa) progeny from their 'seed' (Hebrew word zera). It is Biblically clear from these verses that God is involved with the reproduction and characteristics of every plant, animal, and human that ever existed as well as everyone that will be ever made.
Here again is my ninth point from the last referenced post below. It shows clearly shows that God generates all life forms by growing them from 'seed' and not by popping them into existence instantaneously.
'The authors of the Bible make many references to 'seed'; in the YLT the word was used 254 times and many were statements by God himself. In most cases it is to people and descendent nations of people, and at other times to plants, and other times to animals. Je 31:27, Is 59:21, Ge 1:11, Ge 3:15, Ge 7:3 & 1 Cor 15:38 I know this because I have read every one of these 254 verses. Even Jesus was referred to as a seed. Is 65:9 This common usage of the same word by God indicates a common viewpoint by him toward how all multicellular life is generated, the process of being grown to maturity from a seed (a fertilized single cell from the union of two parental gametes) based on the information that He controls and provides in each seed. God ties all life forms together symbolically and also documents for us the process that He used in this physically accurate expression. God and the prophets are letting us know that God uses the same process for making all life forms. This is overwhelming support for evolutionary creation and against popping animals into existence ex nihilo.'
Ps 89:29 And I have set his seed for ever, And his throne as the days of the heavens.
Jer 31:27 YLT Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have sown the house of Israel, And the house of Judah, With seed of man, and seed of beast.
Is 61:9 YLT And known among nations hath been their seed, And their offspring in the midst of the peoples, All their beholders acknowledge them, For they [are] a seed Jehovah hath blessed. I have also provided extensive posts on these topics and referencing the Biblical supporting verses as well. Yet, the YEs avoid and never respond to these verses and my claims based on these verses.
I think you see the conflicts between these verses with your view but are afraid to address them and are avoiding a response.
If you had reasonable rebuttal to my points, I would expect to see them instead of the constant attempts at character assasination in your replies! Please, see the following post for more details:
1)
Yatsá Verses Implying Natural Procreation2)
No Question That Ge 1 Describes Evolutionary Creation, Just How Do You Convolute It To Justify Your View? 3)
No God Time? 4)
Did God Really Say?5)
Biblical Evidence for Evolutionary Creationism for DummysIf you add all this Biblical evidence together it equals
NO POPPING OR INSTANTANEOUS CREATION OF ALL LIFE FORMS; INSTEAD GOD WORKS THROUGH NATURE, MAKE HIS DESIRED CHANGES TO ITS SEED, AND GROWS AND PRUNES ALL LIFE USING NATURE You have a face saving way out though; join the battle against Darwinsts as an Evolutionary Creationist! In this way you can be both technically and Biblically correct as we battle the non-believers like Darwin setting the record straight on the side of truth.
For many years now, it has been obvious to me and others that
unguided evolution is the real issue with Darwinism. Your erroneous YE views (1)the ridiculously short age of the earth, 2)death and decay starting after the original sin, and 3)your imagined divine opposition to create macro evolutionary jumps in genetic code) only serve as a distraction for addressing the real issue of whether God is in control or not. God said that He made everything, and the non-believer has looked from all angles to find a way to leave God out of it. Bret, as you said in your last post, God 'controls every single molecule'. If you carry this concept into reproduction, it puts God back in charge of the reproductive process and centers Him at the control of every change made to the genetic code, every allele expressed and which organisms will be capable of reproduction. This is in direct opposition to what Darwin postulated as a random chance event. If you read about the history of Darwinism, this is the same issue that the Catholic Church had and contemporaries of Charles Darwin like Asa Gray (friend of Darwin and early evolutionary creationist) and AR Wallace (co-inventor of the evolution concept) had with Charles Darwin's viewpoint. Darwin's contempories who were devote Christians insisted the natural processes of modification and selection that Darwin described were God guided natural ones and Darwin insisted that they were not, Darwin introduced the concept of modification by
chance. That basically is where Darwin went wrong, since God tells us that nothing is left to chance because He foreknew everything that would happen.
You also have taken issue with one of the Biblical verses that I referenced. The Hebrew key words in Is 45:7 are
רע ברא
ברא Pronunciation Bará 'Definition: A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes):--choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).
רע -Pronunciation ra` Definition bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun:--adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra'ah; as adjective or noun.]
Your original favorite versions the KJV, YLT, ASV each translate this Hebrew phrase as 'create evil' while you say 'create disaster'. I can only assume that your different translation is because of your position that God does not create evil. Below are the translation of the original Hebrew words. My position is that God made and continues to make everything with foreknowledge and some of that 'everything' was made to be 'evil'. God created Satan, Ahab, Hitler, Stalin, Ghengis Khan, serial killers, and other mass murders. God foreknew who they would turn out to be and did it anyway as part of his plan to teach his children about good and evil and consequently to accomplish a greater 'good' ultimately in the end. This is so that God would would have new sons and daughters that directly experience good and evil and are willing to make a conscious free will decision to overcome and reject this evil in their lives for eternity with God.
You obviously disagree with my position as well as God's statement recorded in the KJV, YLT, ASV Bible translations. Please explain why you disagree with this foundational statement that God made: He creates evil and he creates everything.
Lee