Earthage 101

A creationist forum to discuss how old the Earth is...All about how God may have done it. No argument whether God did it. We all believe he did.


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Young Earth or Old Earth? Here is where to post your thoughts!

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976 Answers in [color=red]red[/color] on Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:24 am

Geometric Triangulation is Hard Science ...
but comparing the brightness of one twinkle
to another is somewhat susceptible to varying
degrees of optical distortion!

The science of optics and luminosity is about as hard a science as you can get.

BUT ... I have little doubt that the Universe is
infinitely larger than we can HONESTLY measure.

Then you should have no problem with the dimensions of the universe that the astronomers are HONESTLY measuring.

But were does it say that God Created the Stars
in the OFF position ... then placed them way out
in the distance ... and then later decided to pull
their little chains ... and illuminate them ???

The text says that God created the stars in the ON position -- they were visible. They were already their great distances away.

God Created EVERYTHING fully formed & complete ...
with the exception of the Earth which He describes
in the Days of Creation!
Adam was a Man ... not a boy, baby, or embryo!
The animals were also adults ... not newborns!
The answer to the age old question is "The CHICKEN"...
NOT the egg!

After the creation of Adam and the stars both started aging. 930 years later Adam died an old man. If Adam were alive today he would appear to be several thousand years old. In the same manner the starlight we see today looks as old as it really is. What astronomers see is the "light in transit" as it moves through the universe. We know from direct observation the cosmic makeup (stellar dust clouds) of what's between us and the star. As its light beam makes it way from the star to our eye we can measure its spectral line shift and that tells us how far the light beam has traveled. Think of the amount of red you see in the glow from a distant forest fire as a function of the amount of smoke that is in the air. These spectral shifts are directly measureable with great precision. In addition we can directly observe "real time" cosmic events taking place, such as supernova explosions. These are no illusions. Astronomers are observing and directly measuring real stellar events at real and great distances.

I don't understand why it is deceitful for God to
Create a world & universe that was ready to use ...
right out of the box?
Starting His PERFECT Scriptures with a detailed
fallacy that He must have known would someday
be proven wrong ... makes God either deceitful
or just plain stupid?

God created the universe and all the laws that govern it "right out of the box." The Bible and His creation both declare his glory.
1The heavens are telling of the glory of God. And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. 2Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge. 3There is no speech, nor are there words; Their voice is not heard. 4Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their utterances to the end of the world. In them He has placed a tent for the sun. (Psalm 19:1-4 NASB)

20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. (Romans 1:20 NASB
)

Speculations and Assumptions based on SOFT Science
cannot possibly trump God's Word !!!

Neither the study of the Bible or His creation are SOFT sciences. Astronomy (optics and luminosity) is about a hard a science as you can get and it perfectly aligns with the Bible.

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977 Hard Science vs. Soft Science on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:40 pm

Hello Stu ... & others ...

Glad to see you jump into the fray!
Geometric Triangulation is Hard Science ...
but comparing the brightness of one twinkle
to another is somewhat susceptible to varying
degrees of optical distortion!
BUT ... I have little doubt that the Universe is
infinitely larger than we can HONESTLY measure.
But were does it say that God Created the Stars
in the OFF position ... then placed them way out
in the distance ... and then later decided to pull
their little chains ... and illuminate them ??? sunny
God Created EVERYTHING fully formed & complete ...
with the exception of the Earth which He describes
in the Days of Creation!
Adam was a Man ... not a boy, baby, or embryo!
The animals were also adults ... not newborns!
The answer to the age old question is "The CHICKEN"...
NOT the egg!
I don't understand why it is deceitful for God to
Create a world & universe that was ready to use ...
right out of the box?
Starting His PERFECT Scriptures with a detailed
fallacy that He must have known would someday
be proven wrong ... makes God either deceitful
or just plain stupid? jocolor
Speculations and Assumptions based on SOFT Science
cannot possibly trump God's Word !!! No

Bret*

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978 The Grand Canyon of the Nile on Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:12 am

Bret, that's a good point about the canyons & how most rivers should have large canyons based on eons of time.
I think most of us would probably agree that the Nile is one of the oldest rivers in the world, yet there is no Grand Canyon of the Nile, nor has it changed its course much...

Keith

PS Stu, nice seeing you yesterday!

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979 *** Stellar Parallax *** on Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:56 pm

It is true that using high school geometry alone distances to the stars can be measured directly (with a small error bar) only out a to few thousand light years away. To measure star distances beyond that astronomers use other methods.
Stars really do twinkle and the variation of a certain class of stars called Cepheids is so predictable that their variation is used to measure the distances out to the farthest corners of the universe. First astronomers detect a Cepheid in our galaxy, then measure the luminosity of a more distant Cepheid and compare the relative intensities. The proportionate difference in brightness corresponds to the proportionate distance from Earth.
Today astronomers are using microwave maser sources orbiting supergiant black holes to extend the direct distance measurements out to 25 million light years + 10%. (Masers are a sort of microwave laser.) Astronomers expect to get the direct distance measurement error bar down to + 3% soon now that they have several years of measurements on maser sources.

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980 2- Down !!! on Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:37 pm

Time to burn down Straw-Man #2 ... !!!
*** Stellar Parallax ***
This fairly accurate method of measuring the distance
of Stars from the Earth is less than 200 years old.
But was ONLY accurate for distances up to 150 light-years.
About 20-years ago we upped that accuracy to an absolute
maximum of 2000 light-years!
In around 5 more years ... we hope to break the 10k barrier?
Sounds like a pretty YOUNG Universe to me!

The TRUTH hurts ....... sometimes? cheers


Bret*

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981 1- Down !!! on Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:41 pm

So ... if I'm hearing the BrokenMan(Dave?) correctly...
then it looks like we ALL agree that the Grand Canyon
is NOT definitive proof of an Old Earth ... Right?

Bret*

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982 Happy Father's Day on Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:20 pm

The Last Words of the Old Testament:

"See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes. He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."

Malachi 4:5-6

Happy Father's Day!

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lordfry wrote:Maybe someone can help me with this one?
If the Grand Canyon was caused by a little water
over a long period of time ... then why aren't
ALL rivers running through the bottom of deep
canyons by now?
There are a LOT of rivers in the World ...
But ... very FEW canyons!
Hmmm?

Bret*

I think it is because most rivers change course through time, or the Grand Canyon was formed during the flood of Genesis. I am not sure frankly, but consistent archeological evidence seems to mostly point to it being created over a longer period.

Personally, I leave open the possibility that things like this could have come about in a shorter period of time. This has no bearing on how old the Earth is necessarily.

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984 Changed so New Posts Appear on Top on Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:56 am

Admin


Admin
Sorry for my weak config skills!!

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985 Just a Thought? on Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:19 pm

Maybe someone can help me with this one?
If the Grand Canyon was caused by a little water
over a long period of time ... then why aren't
ALL rivers running through the bottom of deep
canyons by now?
There are a LOT of rivers in the World ...
But ... very FEW canyons!
Hmmm?

Bret*

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986 Young Earth - Old Earth on Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:54 am

Greetings Gentlemen. I'm on board, looking fwd to more discussions with you.

Keith

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Couple of things would help.
We need to see people identified by name.
We need a simple tutorial on how to use
It's going to take some time for people to get used to doing this so I suggest we start strings with email (together with a post) and then move to the forum as the exchange gets robust

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988 OK...So has everyone burned out? on Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:18 pm

Sheesh; we sent so much email we spammed out two participants!

Where are da posts?

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testing 1 2 3 4 5 6



Last edited by stu on Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added 4 5 6)

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This is just a TEST of the Emergency Broadcast System !!?
Add little Face here> Rolling Eyes
R U ready to RUMBLE?
Caution! ... You have entered the NO SPIN ZONE !!! Arrow
Jesus Saves !!!
Obama Spends !!! Twisted Evil
Did he actually just say that?
affraid
Sorry folks ... just testing the water.

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Admin


Admin
OK, now that I have figured out the right tool to use for this discussion, I think we are in good shape.

Please post your responses to this initial post!

Remember, it is fine to make our points in an appropriately forceful manner, but let's be respectful of each other and exercise humility and gentleness!

In Christ,

Dave Cristofaro

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